Big Bubba's Big Laugh Of The Day
No, silly, I am not referring to the William Jefferson Clinton interview by Greta van Sustern. It was a real hoot, but, not that. I am talking about the release of Hanoi John's Yale record. For the past five, six years the pseudo intellectual, progressive liberal demoracist crowd have been calling George Bush a dummy because Daddy got him into Yale and his GPA was around 2.0. Who’s your village idiot now, Bubba?
I wonder why the major media outlets don't have this story out there? Indeed! We know the answer to that one don't we? I think I heard this story on Fox (of course) before I left the house this morning.
I wonder why the major media outlets don't have this story out there? Indeed! We know the answer to that one don't we? I think I heard this story on Fox (of course) before I left the house this morning.
posted by BigBubba at 7:45 PM
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46 Comments:
Of course George Bush is no dummy, but the liberal media will continue to portray him as such while, at the same time, they choose to ignore John Fonda Kerry's academic record.
I'm beginning to question the intelligence of Jeb Bush, however. He recently sent CAIR a letter of commendation. See
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/006509.php
But you won't see the leftists jump onto JB's mistake because CAIR is pc these days.
I was watching local TV news a few days after 911. A spokesman came on for the local Muslims. Lo and behold he was my very good friend, Mohammed (am I giving away anything disclosing his name?), a Pakistani.
He formerly was (literally) a rocket scientist with NASA. He moved to San Antonio and bought a medium sized business here. I had patronized the business before he bought it and continued to patronize it. When I became employed for the maintenance department of the largest local heavy industry I sent Mohammed all my business because I knew that he was fair, honest and reliable. Coincidentally when I reentered federal service Mohammed was the successful bidder for one of our maintenance contracts and I was the administrative officer for his contract. Again he was totally fair, honest and reliable unlike some of my other game playing contractors.
I was very impressed with Mohammed's statement to the people of San Antonio. He was calm, cool and spoke to the truth as he saw it. He said all the right things that other Muslims seemed to be avoiding. I have met many Pakistanis locally mostly through business. I have liked them all with only one exception. But, who really knows what in the heart of a man, especially a fanatical potential terrorist. They certainly do not wear terrorist fanatic name tags and unfortunately many times we find out too late. I believe that the Patriot Act has allowed the Feds to ferret out many of the potential problems.
Mr. Ducky, I thought you had disappeared on me. What would I have done if I felt the urge to insult someone?
I can tell you the gospel about the Feds and Arabic. As far back as the sixties sufficient numbers of Arabic linguists were a problem in the military. I think that perhaps it was easier to persuade people to become Mandarin Chinese linguists. This is just another problem that is not because of Bush along with coquis under the bed, bad breath, world hunger and any other silly Bush accusations.
Another interesting story about Hanoi John vs. George Bush in college.
Another story the media sat on in the electon' last I checked Astronomy is togher then geology.Gentlemans Cu
I don’t think the use of the word sycophant to describe President Bush, and his actions, is appropriate English usage. I say that as a student of English, not as a supporter of President Bush.
The Iraq War, compared to wars past was almost a walk on the beach. I hate to sound like I am trivializing an action where good men died. But, the point remains that it was not much of a challenge to our military. I am more than certain that President Bush’s decision to invade Iraq was based on the advice of military and political advisors at the highest level. Prior to the invasion I foresaw our securing our military objectives almost unopposed based on my knowledge of the capabilities of our Armed Forces today. I left the U.S. Army more than twenty years ago and believed that. Prior to the invasion I correctly thought that the nervous Nellies who predicted effective Iraqi military action were hopeless dreamers.
Your statement that “Protestant concept of riches as a sign of God's grace” is ludicrously ill informed. There are, to be sure, those who preach a “prosperity gospel.” I personally view such interpretations to be practically heresy. They obviously overlook the implications of,
Matthew 19:24
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go into the kingdom of heaven.
Prosperity Gospel is absolutely not representative of main stream Protestantism.
My prayer, every day, is to thank the Father for the bounty of his provision in my life that exceeds all of my expectations and what I would have been bold enough to pray for. I also thank the Father for my health. Someone might not think much of my poor health, but, I say my health has been sufficient to see me through for this long, Thank you Father.
Ducky here....the sign in seems to reject my password.
Sycophant:
A person who seeks favor by flattering people of wealth or influence; a parasite; a toady.
Describes Bush in my eyes,
If you are going to judge this Iraqi mess, Bubba, I think you have to judge it from the "mission accomplished" perspective. Bush felt that we would roll into Baghdad, start pumping the oil and install a puppet regime to the cheers of the suckers..er, the cheers of the iraqis.
Well, the enemy is resourceful, trained and dedicated and that country will have no peace until we are out.
Now as for the branch of religions that use God to divide the world into the deserving rich and the underserving, sinful poor. You know that crowd exists. What do people of good faith on either side of the political spectrum do to identify them and reject their movement? This seems more of a problem for the right since the lefts burden is often the sectarian "volvo liberal".
Ducky,
Do you know George Bush personally? I don't, but I've met a few people who do.
According to these people who know Bush personally, he is someone who says what he believes. Also, one of his friends says that Bush really loves people and doesn't care what another person's social standing is. Now, maybe these people are prejudiced in favor of their friend--on second thought, I'd say they definitely are. But I just thought I'd pass on the little bit of information I have.
Bubba,
As a Christian, I find myself in complete agreement with your explanation of the prosperity Gospel as "heresy." I would add "arrogant, self-righteous heresy," which is reminiscent of the Pharisees, whom Jesus called vipers and hypocrites.
Bad news, Mr. Ducky, the mission has been accomplished. Saddam has been deposed and is awaiting trial. Free and democratic elections have been held in Iraq and Afghanistan. It hasn’t been perfect, but close enough.
Mr. Ducky, I have to repeat that
Prosperity Gospel is absolutely not representative of main stream Protestantism. Evangelicals would be quick to correct your mistaken premise that they believe that they can earn or merit the grace of God. God’s grace is unmerited and free to those who believe in Him. We are the recipients, when we believe, of God's undeserved mercy in redeeming humankind.
People of religion do not give up their right to have political beliefs of their choosing. The demoracists made a choice to ignore the religious beliefs of their party rank and file. Worse yet party hacks started, and continue, gratuitous criticism of people of religion. Their ridiculous statements and premises about religion have driven away people of religion in droves. As a consequence the Republican Party has certainly managed to attract people of religion. Should that be a surprise? Politicians ignore, or put down, people of religion at their own risk. The attempt to make religious people the scapegoats for the failures of the demoracists is extremely risky.
Finally, Mr. Ducky, who does President Bush have to flatter to gain favor? He’s the President for crying out loud. He is the wealthy son of a wealthy family who has repeatedly stated he is looking forward to returning to the quiet life of Texas when he leaves office.
Always on Watch, most of our problems, criticisms and persecutions, as Evangelical Christians, are caused by the heresy of the Prosperity Teaching and Word-Faith Movement adherents. Names that come to mind are Rod Parsley, Preacher/Entertainer, Oral Roberts, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, Kenneth Copeland. All of these folks are not shy about asking you for your money so that you can experience prosperity. Such heresy makes me cringe. These folks love to get you to send for their Prayer Cloth. Robert Tilton used to send out a life size poster that you could unfold to have him by your side as you prayed for prosperity. These people ARE NOT EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS.
People who believe in fair and open inquiry for intellectual enlightenment should check out "Power for Living". When you read their book, you will know exactly what Evangelical beliefs are.
Bubba,
I know some of the names you mentioned (Oral Roberts and Jim Bakker, of course). Never had any use for them. Once they start charging for a "prayer towel" or the like, I shut down--mentally, spiritually, and financially. The New Testament speaks against the money-changers, right?
BTW, I agree with you about the book "Power of Living."
Isn't it interesting that, for all their talk about tolerance and individual rights, many liberals want to lump Christians under one stereotype?
Always on Watch, It has more to do with ignorance than tolerance. All you have to do to confirm that is listen to TV. Probably the majority of remarks about religion that you hear are partially, if not totally, factually wrong. Especially remarks that are critical of religion. Notice that I said "religion" and I did not say "Evangelical." I have heard incorrect infomation about practically every world religion, at one time or another, in the media.
Just my $.02...
Like Ducky, I think that modern western politicians vastly overestimate their ability to do "good" in the world. For it takes a tremendous amount of "evil" to accomplish a relatively trivial amount of good. I think America needs to stop giving men fish (fighting their wars for them), and concentrate on educating those who are willing to "learn" how to fish. In other words, turn America into a "terrorist training camp" for radical liberals.
Ooops, I guess it already is that. Just look at our universities.
But then, do they perform any military training or education in military tactics or strategy in our universities? For it is military training that is needed to combat tyrants and dictators and overthrow existing governments. Tyrants and dictators have little use or respect for "civil liberties", "peaceful demonstrations", or "rights".
Liberal activists are put to death in most countries we end up "invading". Would be government democratic "reformers" are imprisoned in most countries we end up invading. Peaceful demonstrators are shot in most countries we end up invading, that is, before we get there.
What good does a degree in "Peace Studies" do for for a radical liberal terrorist? All it teaches him is how to destroy an already "liberal" society and government. And what can that lead to besides...tyranny???
And one other thing bothers me. Why do modern liberals detest the religious and the faithful so much? Priests are the friends and defenders of the poor and oppressed, the world over. Priests do all they can to serve the needs of the weakest elements in society. And they are non-violent beyond any strain of moral leftism ever devised. They are everything the "progressive left" claims it aspires to be... except for one little bitty thing, this "nutty deception" about there being a "G_d" and an "afterlife".
So you see my fine feathered friend, why I do not fathom the depth of your mind. For it's logic almost seems to oppose itself. There almost seems to be no "truth" in "justice" nor "justice" in "truth".
-FJ
On religion.
I think that the priests and pastors of our world have a very difficult job. They serve and minister to a vast and varied community, from the richest billionaire to the poorest homeless family, from the youngest infant at baptism to the oldest or sickiest's deathbed confession, from the elite commando about to enter battle to the Pope himself on the eve of Christ's birth. Through war, peace, times of plenty and times of famine, throughout it all, they have to stay on message, and offer the members of the flock comforts and consolations as well as proper admonishments and reproaches.
That the Catholic Church has been able to consistently accomplish this task for as long as it has, truly amazes me... that there isn't an even greater "variety" of "Christian" offshoots and sects after 2,000 years seems almost incredible.
Of course, the Catholic Church has suffered a "few" reversals over the course of that period. The crusades, the inquisition, the persecution of heretics, the Reformation, all those "black marks" that the left feels it has to toss out in order to feel an even remote level of "moral equivalency". It seems they cannot forget that it is men, and not G_d Himself, who ministers to the His flock. Yet the flaws of men like Lenin and Stalin, are easily overlooked when one aspires to similar ideals.
And so Ducky derides the followers of Mammon (sic?) in an effort to support his charge of Bush sycophancy, BB touts the virtues of Evangelicals, Always admonishes those that use modern "marketting" techniques to minister to the wealthy, neptune satirizes the left, and we all (almost)lament being "lumped" together under leftist label of "fundamentalist" with "fowl" winks and nods in the direction of potential "terrorist" of the "Islamic" variety.
And so we need to recognize the "labels" for what they are, gross absolute unrealities of little distinction or accuracy or use for "understanding" except to those that apply them. And since they are being applied "against" certain people, they must serve "someone's" purpose.
Fortunately, when labels blatantly contradict reality, they have the effect of discrediting those that apply them. G_d did, after all, give us our "good senses" to enable us to see through them.
They say the devil has a "silver" tongue. But perhap's G_d's gifts to us, were not ONLY made of gold.
-FJ
Plato, "Republic"
"And now, at last, we have reached firm ground, and are able to infer that the virtues of the State and of the individual are the same. For wisdom and courage and justice in the State are severally the wisdom and courage and justice in the individuals who form the State. Each of the three classes will do the work of its own class in the State, and each part in the individual soul; reason, the superior, and passion, the inferior, will be harmonized by the influence of music and gymnastic. The counsellor and the warrior, the head and the arm, will act together in the town of Mansoul, and keep the desires in proper subjection. The courage of the warrior is that quality which preserves a right opinion about dangers in spite of pleasures and pains. The wisdom of the counsellor is that small part of the soul which has authority and reason. The virtue of temperance is the friendship of the ruling and the subject principles, both in the State and in the individual. Of justice we have already spoken; and the notion already given of it may be confirmed by common instances. Will the just state or the just individual steal, lie, commit adultery, or be guilty of impiety to gods and men? 'No.' And is not the reason of this that the several principles, whether in the state or in the individual, do their own business? And justice is the quality which makes just men and just states. Moreover, our old division of labour, which required that there should be one man for one use, was a dream or anticipation of what was to follow; and that dream has now been realized in justice, which begins by binding together the three chords of the soul, and then acts harmoniously in every relation of life. And injustice, which is the insubordination and disobedience of the inferior elements in the soul, is the opposite of justice, and is inharmonious and unnatural, being to the soul what disease is to the body; for in the soul as well as in the body, good or bad actions produce good or bad habits. And virtue is the health and beauty and well-being of the soul, and vice is the disease and weakness and deformity of the soul."
-FJ
Plato, "Laws"
"Athenian Stranger: Man is one; but in one and the same man are two foolish counsellors who contend within him--pleasure and pain, and of either he has expectations which we call hope and fear; and he is able to reason about good and evil, and reason, when affirmed by the state, becomes law.
'We cannot follow you.'
Athenian Starnger: Let me put the matter in another way: Every creature is a puppet of the Gods--whether he is a mere plaything or has any serious use we do not know; but this we do know, that he is drawn different ways by cords and strings. There is a soft golden cord which draws him towards virtue--this is the law of the state; and there are other cords made of iron and hard materials drawing him other ways. The golden reasoning influence has nothing of the nature of force, and therefore requires ministers in order to vanquish the other principles. This explains the doctrine that cities and citizens both conquer and are conquered by themselves. The individual follows reason, and the city law, which is embodied reason, either derived from the Gods or from the legislator. When virtue and vice are thus distinguished, education will be better understood, and in particular the relation of education to convivial intercourse."
-FJ
BB,
Sorry to clutter your board with so many "truisms". I'll try and restrain myself more in future.
-FJ
Big Bubba steps out to take granddaughter to her summer activities at the school and returns home to water the roses, flowers and grass. Upon checking the computer he finds about a week's worth of pondering, head scratching and replying presents itself courtesy of Farmer John. I think I will go and fix my lunch.
Farmer John, while eating lunch I was looking through my genealogy files. I discovered that an Elisha Rabon had married my third great grandaunt, Mary Grady, probably in North Carolina in early 1800s.
Mr. Ducky,
I didn't imply nor mean to imply that you do not have morals or values when I wrote "Isn't it interesting that, for all their talk about tolerance and individual rights, many liberals want to lump Christians under one stereotype?" I was trying to point out an inconsistency.
And I don't see how your rope comment is a reasonable reaction.
I might point out that an angry reaction usually means that a nerve has been twanged.
Anonymous,
I've asked your question so many times: "Why do modern liberals detest the religious and the faithful so much?" I've never come up with a satisfactory answer.
I'm off to work now...Will check back in sometime tomorrow or this weekend. This is an interesting thread on this blog.
mr. ducky,
Perhaps I missed the day in Sunday school when the Protestants declared the market to have been one of G_ds creations and perfect, and the poor unworthy. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, of which I have been an on again/ off again participant for going on near half a century, regularly hits me up for varied and sundry donations to help alleviate the poverty of the communities it serves in this country, and throughout the world. Believe me, they never once characterized the poor as being unworthy of financial assistance or help, in fact, they lead me to believe quite the reverse was the case, and told me that I should thank the Creator for the "blessings" (as in NOT deserved) He had bestowed upon me.
As for Mr. Smith, I truly believe that he did his utmost to characterize the "workings" of the market to the best of his ability. It wasn't something that he had "created", but he was able to characterize many of its' laws as if it had been some sort of "natural" thing. Now, as much as Mr. Marx may have disapproved of the way this market worked, its' laws, and those whom it benefitted, I personally find his "critique" rather "resentful" and contradictory, as he was inclined to bestow the "blessings" of "productivity" upon only half of those who actively endeavored in generating its' "surplus" in an "industrial setting", for traditionally, it had gone wholly to those who had engineered and "collected" that surplus through the completion of the financial transaction (aka - those that made the "sale" - the capitalist) and Mr. Marx thought it might be time for a change.
Now I do find it curious, that when the time came to ask the farmer who deserved the surplus value from the growth of his crops, Mr. Marx did not assign that value to the Creator Himself who provided the sunshine, soil, and water, and was responsible for its' growth, but instead gave it entirely to the Farmer, whom I would have equated with the bourgeous capitalist, and not the proletarian worker.
Now unlike many, I am not adverse if reasonable men might not care to collect and redistribute a certain "percentage" of the value of a transaction to compensate the parties responsible for the generation of any surpluses or blessings from an ordered organization of its' elements, both capitalist and worker, but I do have a feeling that the Maker Himself and Bestower of Blessings is not getting his fair share of the fruits of the earth. Now perhaps men should be required to set aside one day in seven, and dedicate it to thanking Him for these blessings, but I know that many would label this an unduly onerous imposition and burden.
Now I know you have some opinions on this matter, and I would pleased to listen to them so that I might better understand why this is the case. And as the government already collects money from all the parties involved, why you think that current system remains unfair and what you would consider a "fair" distribution.
-FJ
BB,
Perhaps there are "less" than seven degrees of separation between genealogy researchers. You never know what's going to turn up. The Rabon line is still something of a "blank" for me. Dad wasn't much of a "record keeper", and I find some of his data rather "tenuous" at best.
I didn't mean to present you with a head scratcher as much as to justify some of my rather flip closing comments about words/ labels, devil's tongues, and precious metals.
Enjoy time with your granddaughter while you can. Some of my fondest memories are the result of running my youngest (daughter) around from place to place, to dance lessons and recitals, and spending time waiting for her with a good book in hand.
-FJ
Always,
If you ever do figure out "why" modern liberals seem to be so anti-religious, please let me know.
And mr. ducky,
If this is an unfair characterization of liberals, please say so. You seem to have a respect for Catholicism, but disdain for Protestantism born of economic policies. I'd like to understand if this is "more" than an historical thing, for I have not shared this same viewpoint or experience.
-FJ
My Grandfather was not a wealthy man. He always dressed neatly, in a suit, and had "things" that others gave to him - like his late model Cadillac. He was a conductor with the Missouri Pacific Rail Road. He made his last run to Galveston at the end of WWII and retired.
He was a Baptist lay preacher and a Deacon of the First Baptist Church, Houston. He and Grandma were Presbyterians, but, became Baptists and were baptized in the creek at Spring, Tx. Grandpa had a large tent that he would loan to Baylor "preacher boys" during the summer to go out into the fields and hold revivals. He helped pay for the Baptist Evangelist, Angel Martinez, to attend Baylor. He didn't neglect his daughters for others. He paid for their college also. When Baylor built their new football stadium he bought a bond for Big Bubba's future college tuition.
He was one of the founders of the Goodwill in Houston and the Superintendent of the Star of Hope Rescue mission.
My mother once asked her father why they were not rich. He told her that perhaps not being a rich was a blessing since if the family was rich they would not love the Lord, and serve Him, as much as they were doing.
I don't mention all this as a brag, but, rather as a question. Evangelicals preach a prosperity Gospel dividing the haves and have nots? I don't think so, Mr. Ducky.
Mr. Ducky you need to stop painting everything black and white with your super wide brush. Please realize that Catholic and Evangelicals both suffer from practitioners of heresy and apostasy in their midst. You have to understand that the devil loves to go to church and knows the Bible far better than you and I ever will. Everyone needs to always remember that the reason that we are in church is because we are sinners. Every person in there with you is a sinner. Those who do not understand that are trouble.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
And in closing,
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
I grew up with these two verses which are basic tenets of the Baptist faith.
Why are liberals so anti religious? Because they believe that mankind has progressed beyond their superstitious past into a new age of intellectual superiority. They believe that their superior intellect has them at the very leading edge of the new age. They want to replace the Bible with social engineering. Out with the antiquated Biblical morality and ethics and in with their superior thoughts.
The pseudo intellectual progressive liberals do not understand why flyover America maintains their superstitious beliefs when the pseudo intellectual progressive liberals are offering an obviously superior alternative. These folks have totally destroyed the American education system from top to bottom and will do the same to society at large with their social engineering schemes. Flyover America notes all of these disasters and especially notices the vendetta of the pseudo intellectual progressive liberals against God and say, "I don't think so."
The confrontation between Believers and Godless Intellectuals is not new. It started more than two thousand years ago. The circumstances of the life and death of Jesus confounded the religious, Pharisees, and intellectuals, Greeks, alike and continues to do so two thousand years later. The religious and the intellectuals continue to be the hardest to convince that God exists and that He offers every man His unmerited grace.
BB,
I guess mankind is still attempting to eat from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". I had thought that the Almighty had placed a guard before the Garden to keep mankind from sneaking back in, but it's obvious that certain self-selected men are getting faux-fruit from somewhere.
Perhaps these elite men 'feel' that if they eat enough faux-fruit, they can make their own garden paradise. Perhaps this explains some of these men's interest in all things "genetic".
But I suspect that the contraband faux-fruit they're getting, is being smuggled out by a real snake, and originates with the old "Tree of Life". Only this time the fruit-itarians are going to have to make a go of consuming it without the Father's Word to guide them.
I wish these men well, but for reasons beyond my ken, I do not forsee a happy ending to this story.
-FJ
Seven degrees of separation? I thought it was less, like three to five. I went to High School, and played football with, William Jefferson Clinton’s first cousin. A mutual friend was talking to me about him during the Clinton Presidency. The cousin had been invited to stay at the White House several times during Christmas Seasons. The word was that his Cousin William was lots of fun to be with. I believe that. Actually, his Cousin William has frequently demonstrated that he can be too much fun to be with - especially if you are a woman, don’t keep your skirts around your knees, kneel in his presence, or abuse cigars.
"During an earlier event yesterday, Mehlman poked fun at Dean's comment. At a reception for him by the Republican Jewish Coalition, held at the Duquesne Club, Mehlman quipped: "Good afternoon, my fellow white Christians." NOTE: Ken Mehlman is the Republican National Chairman.
I personally believe that it was a far better world when one day in seven was set aside to honor the creator. Here in the Bible Belt zone of flyover America Blue Laws prevented practically anything public except breathing. I believe that no matter what your religious belief system is there is something cleansing and rejuvenating about a day without commerce and the attendant hustle and bustle.
Mr. Ducky’s contrarian morals and values were always painfully obvious. He also has a very unique way of expressing his morals and values in a salty language style. I was interested in his reference to the Catholic Religion. I wish that he would expand on those remarks. It’s appropriate, and not preachy, Mr. Ducky since I would like to discuss Judeo-Christian issues on this forum. I am still searching for my first ancestor who fled to these shores to escape religion. They all were motivated by the vision of a bright, shining city on a hill spreading a concept of a free and democratic people living in a nation founded on Judeo-Christian laws, mores and ethics.
Mr. Ducky, if I tell you that it is Saturday night and I have a hot rod Ford and a two dollar bill.......... that does not mean that I think that you are broke, walking and for you it is Wednesday. Get a grip and get logical, Ducky. Lord Russell was not God’s Lord for the Irish people. Lord Russell was just another sinner who will someday stand in line in front of the Judgement Throne with the rest of us.
I was listening to the Finals Pre-game show and almost turned off my television. I was sure Pop was going to grab the nearest towel and throw it on the court to forfeit. That’s what I thought listening to the talking heads spewing and glowing about the World Champion Detroit Pistons and their superstars(?) Wallace and Prince. Someone should have been standing behind Walton whispering in his ear, “Duncan, Parker, Ginobelli. Duncan, Parker, Ginobelli.........” Luckily they always have the genius, and my favorite, Charles Barkley to balance things out. Ya gotta love Charles Barkley!,
"You know the world is off tilt, when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest basketball player is Chinese, and Germany doesn't want to go to war." -Charles Barkley
To mr. ducky... a lesson from the Greeks on the love that dare not speak its' name (Plato, "Symposium").
Alcibiades - "When the lamp was put out and the servants had gone away, I thought that I must be plain with him and have no more ambiguity. So I gave him a shake, and I said: 'Socrates, are you asleep?'
'No,' he said.
'Do you know what I am meditating?
'What are you meditating?' he said.
'I think,' I replied, 'that of all the lovers whom I have ever had you are the only one who is worthy of me, and you appear to be too modest to speak. Now I feel that I should be a fool to refuse you this or any other favour, and therefore I come to lay at your feet all that I have and all that my friends have, in the hope that you will assist me in the way of virtue, which I desire above all things, and in which I believe that you can help me better than any one else. And I should certainly have more reason to be ashamed of what wise men would say if I were to refuse a favour to such as you, than of what the world, who are mostly fools, would say of me if I granted it.'
To these words he replied in the ironical manner which is so characteristic of him:- 'Alcibiades, my friend, you have indeed an elevated aim if what you say is true, and if there really is in me any power by which you may become better; truly you must see in me some rare beauty of a kind infinitely higher than any which I see in you. And therefore, if you mean to share with me and to exchange beauty for beauty, you will have greatly the advantage of me; you will gain true beauty in return for appearance--like Diomede, gold in exchange for brass. But look again, sweet friend, and see whether you are not deceived in me. The mind begins to grow critical when the bodily eye fails, and it will be a long time before you get old.'
Hearing this, I said: 'I have told you my purpose, which is quite serious, and do you consider what you think best for you and me.'
'That is good,' he said; 'at some other time then we will consider and act as seems best about this and about other matters.'
Whereupon, I fancied that he was smitten, and that the words which I had uttered like arrows had wounded him, and so without waiting to hear more I got up, and throwing my coat about him crept under his threadbare cloak, as the time of year was winter, and there I lay during the whole night having this wonderful monster in my arms. This again, Socrates, will not be denied by you. And yet, notwithstanding all, he was so superior to my solicitations, so contemptuous and derisive and disdainful of my beauty--which really, as I fancied, had some attractions--hear, O judges; for judges you shall be of the haughty virtue of Socrates--nothing more happened, but in the morning when I awoke (let all the gods and goddesses be my witnesses) I arose as from the couch of a father or an elder brother."
_____
Can virtue be taught? Some teach by example, others admonish with words. For the Word is Law for the Hebrews, and Leviticus is their understanding of it. Men were banished from Eden for not "obeying" the Word, and so for those that learned that lesson, the Word is enough.
And "not speaking" about something is different from "legitimizing" or "endorsing" a practice. That is something a "wise" man might learn to accept. Don't ask, don't tell... a "wise" policy from a man not otherwise renowned for his "wisdom".
-FJ
mr. ducky,
If I might be so bold, I would postulate that Judeo-Christian values are the hard-learned lessons of mankind inherited from our forefathers. They are the combined result of generations of "experience" gained since mankind's banishment from Eden and extending through the present day. They are the equivalents for mankind to what "instincts" are to animals.
And although you may not feel the need, based upon the state of our current civilization and law, to oppose gay marriage, homosexuality is not something that is "new under the sun". Mankind has had some "experience" with the practice and although it has been "tolerated" in many cultures, it is almost universally a "taboo" and seldom "endorsed" or ever "enshrined" in law. You might ask yourself the question, "Why is that?"
For a frank and honest explication of the nature of taboos and some postulated origins of religion, I would recommend you gain some learned insight. Freud's "Totem and Taboo" comes immediately to mind. (Excerpts @ http://www.mdx.ac.uk/www/study/xfre1913.htm )
And after learning more as to the origins of taboos you still think that it is in the best interest of mankind to return to an era of the "primal horde" and "alpha male" impacts on "beta male" sexual practices, then by all means, resurrect values from the even more ancient and now thankfully defunct practices of mankind from a pre- Judeo-Christian era.
But I don't think you'll be entirely happy with "Tree of Life" era living conditions or a return of alpha male competition and domination. That is unless you aspire to becoming an alpha male yourself. Ask Al Gore how easy THAT is (I suspect that in "reality" it takes more than a make-over and wardrobe change).
And as incest is also a "universal" ancient taboo, perhaps you might care to consider why this might be so. The mind of man has undergone many profound alterations over the course of millenia. I would advise caution in attempting to selectively resurrect practices from an earlier state of mental development, for you know what modern neurologists say about neurons... "Use 'em or Lose 'em". In this particular case, I suspect that you might actually lose "consciousness".
Nietzsche, "Genealogy of Morals" (Book II) - "...Just like the things water animals must have gone though when they were forced either to become land animals or to die off, so events must have played themselves out with this half-beast (man) so happily adapted to the wilderness, war, wandering around, adventure—suddenly all its instincts were devalued and "disengaged."
From this point on, these animals were to go on foot and "carry themselves"; whereas previously they had been supported by the water. A terrible heaviness weighed them down. In performing the simplest things they felt ungainly. In dealing with this new unknown world they no longer had their old leader, the ruling unconscious drives which guided them safely. These unfortunate creatures were reduced to thinking, inferring, calculating, bringing together cause and effect, reduced to their "consciousness," their most impoverished and error-prone organ! I believe that on earth there has never been such a feeling of misery, such a leaden discomfort—while at the same time those old instincts had not all at once stopped imposing their demands! Only it was difficult and seldom possible to do their bidding. For the most part they had to find new and, as it were, underground satisfactions for them.
All instincts which are not discharged to the outside are turned back inside. This is what I call the internalization of man. From this first grows in man what people later call his "soul." The entire inner world, originally as thin as if stretched between two layers of skin, expanded and extended itself, acquired depth, width, and height to the extent that the discharge of human instinct out into the world was obstructed."
-FJ
mr. ducky,
btw - Not to resurrect an old wound, but Smith and Marx weren't the first to deal with the subject of economics. In fact, a much more comprehensive tract was written by Xenophon, a student of Socrates and "peer" of Plato, almost 1,500 years before Smith's "Wealth of Nations" was published (1776). It's on-line @
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext98/econm10.txt
if you ever care to "broaden" your outlook on the subject and gain some completely "independent" insights.
-FJ
Ooops, I really should do math more often, make that 2,100 years before Smith...(1776 AD; 376 BC).
-FJ
Mr. Ducky, I have noticed, with interest, your long standing preoccupation with homosexuality issues. This is a good place to start a discussion of Judeo-Christian values. I believe that homosexuality is an aberrant life style. Never mind the Bible. After all, by definition, is that not true? Does it not deviate from what is normal and true?
From Mosaic Law to the New Testament Believers are told not to practice aberrant sexual behavior. Since I believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God that is enough for me. The Bible also tells me not to judge my brother least I am judged. OK, I will not judge homosexuals, or others. Since I am what I am, and I am nothing if I don’t believe in the inerrant Word of God, I will love my brother, including those who are homosexual.
I will have to allow my secular side to address the question of homosexual marriages. Since the inerrant Word of God speaks against homosexual behavior there is no question of homosexual marriage within the Church. I am perfectly willing to remain outside the bedroom door, anyone’s bedroom door. But, is marriage “behind the door?” Who benefits from the homosexual marriage? The State? Heterosexuals? Obviously the State may not expect any little warriors to result from the union to spring to the defense of the state. Worse yet such a union represents a financial liability to the state. A partner dies and the State pulls out the safety net. The problem is the union has not produced the statistical two children to financially contribute to the State’s safety net. There seems to be a considerable downside to having the State support an aberrant lifestyle. Why should they? Why not support gambling? How about those Mormon polygamists? At least that would be the fast track for producing Infantry platoons.
Farmer John, let me help with the link. It was Xenophon's "The Economist," right?
BB,
Yes, it was the "The Economist". Thanks for the embedded link.
mr. ducky,
Xenophon was a great political economist as well. His "political perspective" was rather unique in that he was a Greek man who had once lived in, and subsequently rejected, Athenian democracy for Spartan oligarchy. That makes him an expert on systems similar to those proposed by both Smith AND Marx and uniquely qualified to judge the efficacy of various economic systems. He also spent "considerable" time abroad and was an expert on Persia and the oriental empire of Cyrus the Great (Cyropaedia) having spent consider time travelling accross the Anatolian peninsula (Anabasis). Did you know that Sparta's economy was completely independent of that of the rest of Greece and based upon "Iron" as a common currency vice "Gold"??? Believe me, his is no "treatise" on monetary policy though, and his division and treatment of different "classes" is based firmly on something akin to true "natural" law thereby making it perhaps a little "less" politically un-recognizable. His was also not a strictly "materialist" perspective as were those of both Smith and Marx, thus rendering Xenophon's a more comprehensive analysis.
-FJ
If you believe that marriage is an institution of the state then good luck trying to find information about your pre Twentieth Century ancestors. The records of marriages, births, deaths, and christenings were maintained by the church.
The state benefits from stability. I benefit when the state does not tax me to support pseudo intellectual progressive liberal social engineering like homosexual marriages. This is not about stable relationships. It is about whether homosexuals can convince the state to dip their hand in my pocket.
Homosexual behavior is aberrant. A scientific inquiry into the purpose of human sexual organs could only come to one conclusion.
Mr. Ducky, why don’t you trip on into the confessional and tell the Father that you are a good Catholic and you don’t need Leviticus or any of the Old Testament. I think Father will have some Hail Mary’s and Our Fathers for you to spend the day reciting. Before you do anything rash consider these New Testament passages,
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil
Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Matthew 22: 34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
40And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
41On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
These passages were written because the religious people of Jesus' day were forever trying to trip him up on the law. If it were irrelevant he would have just dismissed it out of hand and been done with it. Also, there is still unfulfilled Biblical prophecy contained in the Old Testament so it must still stand.
Asking my brother, or sister, to deny their sexuality would indeed be pointless. Why would I?
I would not propose marriage as a solution to the social problem of prostitution, nor would I propose it as an answer to problems associated with that other aberrant lifestyle, homosexuality. I do think that hospitals could develop kinder, gentler policies as to the definition of who is to be treated as family. After all there are plenty of heterosexual couples, with or without children, who do not choose to be married.
Mr. Ducky, Let's face reality. FPM was making you and me both become a little unhinged. I started out with a "mindless twit" here and there. I haven't even used it once on my own Blog. I thought that FPM was on a steady downward spiral intellectually. Next thing you know I was expanding frequently to imbecile, low grade moron and mindless twit. Then there was my frequent use of "dumbass." All it was ever about, with me, was just a little intellectual jousting with some good natured jabs, taunts, and put downs. FPM was attracting some certified intellectual dim bulbs.
Why doesn’t it surprise me that you attend a church that uses the Dutch Catechism? Modernism in theology is a heretical crutch for those who refuse to accept the eminence of the divine intellect over their own intellect. I see trouble wherever man thinks his way is better than God’s way. A cafeteria style pick and choose religion where you can simply not choose that which is inconvenient to the Believer is not satisfactory. The Word is the whole Bible not just a few favorite passages.
You need to overcome your penchant for putting God in a box of your own description. He doesn’t fit in our boxes. He is bigger than that. You put me and things that you don’t agree with in your boxes also. My best friends are a Cuban Jewish ophthalmologist from Michigan and a retired NYC Italian gambler. Sometimes the NYC guy’s mail man from Boston joins us for lunch. I don’t have a problem talking with someone from Boston. Why some of my best friends are yankees. May I jump out of my box now?
mr. ducky,
You say homosexual marriage has nothing to do with "pocketbooks" but I find the "timing" of the beginning of the push for "legalization" coincident with the termination of what was once known as the "marriage penalty", so forgive me if I maintain my skepticism over the issue.
-FJ
ps - I love Terpsichore Lipshitz!
btw,
Marriage for "love" (or at least requiring female "consent") as well as the maintenance of female chastity before marriage, were all practices expanded upon and then enshrined as official policies necessary for the maintenance of Greek Civilization.
A quick read of Aeschylus' "Suppliant Women" demonstrates the deliberate expansion of the "incest" taboo as a means of "liberating" women from the incestuous male desires of family members and helping solve the incest and marital rape "problems" (the daughters of Danaus were being forced to marry their cousins, the sons of Aegyptus). The necessity for a firm and unyielding "totem" was also replaced by "female choice" aka independence aka the 1st women's lib movement. Hypermnestra DOES marry her cousin eventually, but unlike her sisters, she does not kill him, for he was willing to honor her wish to remain a virgin on their wedding night.
Aeschylus was a psychologist par excellance. Many of the origins and reasons for western civilizational practices can be traced in his "tragedies"... along with those of Sophocles, but less so with Euripides.
-FJ
It's why "western" women are free...and Islamic women are not. Western women can "reject" potential suitors. Islamic women's marriages are "arranged" and the women must do as their parents tell them. So you see the difference it makes in the level of "freedom" one finds in each society....and also levels of incest and marital rape.
-FJ
I've been away for a few days. In returning here, it's interesting to see how all these comments sprang from a short item about the release of Kerry's Yale record.
Ah, the blogs!
Today I enjoyed watching Woody Allen's "Mighty Aphrodite." Now why did that make me think of Farmer John?
Perhaps I need to leave my "chorus" at home occassionally or stick with pure Satyre Plays. I'm starting to get "type" cast.
-FJ
Never mind all that, Farmer John, what do you think about Woody Allen's use of Greek Drama as a foil for his Jewish angst comedy? I always thought it to be pure genius. Would the premise make any sense to someone who did not have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the ancient Greeks? I don't think so.
Before Aeschylus, there were no true hypocrits (actors), there were only oral recitals of poetic verse by rhapsodes like Ion (A character of a Platonic dialogue) who would "emote" the poetry of Homer or Hesiod. Today the world is full of un-poetic rhapsodes who use the entire world for their stage.
I personally think that the use of elements of Greek drama in film, like Allen did, is a sign of genius. It sets this film apart from todays rhapsodic equivalent, which fail to wink at the audience and let him know...this isn't real, either through the strucured verse, the external chorus, or the changing mask.
-FJ
Ducky, Farmer John, and good ol' Big Bubba! I'll definitely try to stop by more often.
~Norm Chompski
Welcome Norm,
I saw some of your conversation w/zinla about Hollywood and threw in my $.02
-FJ
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